
VOL. XLV
No
37
16-September-2002
Arab-US Energy Needs In Perspective
By Herman Franssen
The following is the text of an
address delivered by Dr Herman Franssen to the
National Council on US-Arab Relations and US-GCC Corporate Cooperation
Committees at the 11th Annual Arab-US Policymakers Conference in
Washington DC on 9 September. Dr Franssen is the
President of International Energy Associates. Previously he was the Senior
Economic Advisor of the Minister of Petroleum and Minerals in
Oman. Prior to that he was Chief
Economist of the International Energy Agency and served in various positions
with the US Congress and Department of
Energy.
Prior
to 1973, global oil demand had been rising at an average of 5-6% per year and
most of the rising oil demand was met from newly discovered super-giant oil
fields in the Middle East and North Africa. Between 1960 and 1973, the
Middle
East
share of global oil production rose from 16% (1.75mn b/d) to 37% (21.1mn b/d) or
42% if North
Africa
is included. In 1973, Western
Europe
and Japan
were importing almost all of their oil requirements and respectively 66% and 80%
of their oil imports came from the Middle
East.
Cheap oil from the region certainly helped accelerate the economic recovery in
post-war Europe
and Japan.
In the regional political arena, the future also looked bright for the West.
Despite
the heavy reliance on the Middle
East,
oil supply security was not considered a major issue. The main reasons were the
strong strategic alliances between the
US
and Iran
as well as the Kingdom
of Saudi
Arabia,
which rapidly became the region’s largest oil producer.
The
US, which had been oil independent until about 1960, was importing 5.9mn b/d or
35% of its oil consumption in 1973, of which only 13% came from the Middle East
(versus 65% from Latin America). By contrast Western
Europe
and Japan
imported almost all of their oil in 1973 (respectively 14.3mn b/d and 5.8mn b/d)
and most of it came from the Middle
East.
In
early 1973, all signs pointed at continued robust OECD economic and oil demand
growth and rising oil imports from the prolific oilfields of the
Middle
East
and North
Africa.
However, political events in the Middle
East
caused two severe oil shocks from which the OECD never fully recovered. Perhaps
with the exception of the second half of the 1990s in the
US,
the OECD economies never returned anywhere near the sustained high growth rates
experienced prior to the first oil shock.
The
oil embargo of 1973-74 and the subsequent major oil price hikes and asset
nationalization by most Middle
East
oil producing countries, changed the world of oil profoundly. In the context of the current
US
frenzy to reduce dependence on Middle
East
oil, it is important to note that the
US
– which was only marginally dependent on Middle
East
oil compared with Europe
and Japan
– suffered as much from the adverse economic impact of the oil price explosion
as its OECD allies.
This was despite the fact that the
US
was only marginally dependent on Arab and Iranian oil compared with
Europe
and Japan.
US
efforts to protect its economy from the oil shock of 1973-74 through a series of
domestic oil price controls and rationing which created product shortages, gave false signals to the market and brought about
serious distortions in the US
economy and the US
petroleum industry.
Many
politicians believe that lower dependence on Middle
East
oil will protect the US
from the adverse impact of potential oil shocks. US and
global economic developments proved them wrong. Oil is a global commodity.
Following a supply disruption, oil will flow to the buyers able to pay the
higher price. In such circumstances, the major losers are the poor oil importing
developing countries. The cost to the
US
and global economy of serious supply disruptions is not a physical shortage of
oil but the inflationary impact of higher energy prices on the
economy.
OECD Dependence On Middle East Oil
(Mn B/D)
|
1973 |
1985 |
2000 |
Total OECD Oil
Demand |
39.2 |
32.0 |
46.3 |
OECD Oil
Imports |
25.7 |
17.4 |
26.5 |
OECD Oil Imports from
Middle
East |
16.2 |
6.7 |
10.4 |
Of
which: |
|
|
|
US Imports from
Middle
East |
0.8 |
0.6 |
2.5 |
% of Oil Imports
from Middle
East |
11 |
11 |
23 |
Europe Imports from
Middle
East |
10.3 |
3.0 |
3.7 |
% of Imports
from Middle
East |
68 |
35 |
37 |
Japan Imports from
Middle
East |
4.4 |
2.8 |
4.2 |
% of Imports
from Middle
East |
81 |
66 |
79 |
The Arab oil embargo of 1973 and
the Iranian revolution of 1979 caused a more than tenfold increase in oil
prices. These events were major contributors, respectively, to the post-1973 and
post-1979 inflationary spirals and global recessions. Market forces,
supplemented by OECD government policies, brought about a sea change in OECD oil
consumption and production. Within a decade most industrial oil use (including
electrical power plants) had shifted to nuclear power, coal and natural gas. The
latter had hitherto been largely a US fuel, but gradually began to
make inroads in Europe’s residential/commercial
sector.
On the supply side, high oil
prices opened up high cost North
Sea and
Alaskan oil provinces for development and, nationalization of oil reserves in
many Middle
East
countries forced the international oil companies to look elsewhere for oil. The
embargo had left a lasting impact on OECD countries, which established the IEA,
charged with coordinating OECD energy security policy. The IEA countries agreed
to build strategic oil reserves to avoid the chaos in the oil market following
the 1973 oil shock.
In comparison with the panic and
confusion following the 1973-74 oil embargo and to a
lesser extent the 1979-80 Iranian production implosion, the OECD members are now
better prepared to cope with oil supply disruptions for a period of 6-12 months.
If, however, more dramatic, semi-permanent political changes were to take place
in the Middle
East,
and especially among the Arab countries, the impact of a prolonged major supply
reduction from the region would provide an entirely new situation.
It took time for the full impact of
the higher prices of the 1970s to work its way through the energy economies of
the OECD countries in terms of lower economic activity, energy efficiency
improvements, fuel switching and vast E&P
activities from the North Sea to
Alaska. But up until the impact was felt,
the Middle
East oil
producers benefited greatly from the 1970s price hikes. However, once the impact
of the price explosions on oil demand and supply became apparent in the early
1980s, demand for OPEC oil fell sharply and Gulf producers, the residual
producers within OPEC, suffered most in terms of market share losses. Since
then, Middle
East oil
producers have stated time and again that they would never use the oil weapon
again.
The oil weapon was not used lightly in 1973;
it was a weapon of last resort. One cannot rule out that under specific
conditions, when tested to the limit, some major Middle
East oil
producers might be forced to employ this weapon of last resort, even though they
are fully aware of the medium and long-term adverse consequences. This becomes clear when one
examines the impact of the two oil shocks on OECD oil consumption and
production.
Between 1973 and 1985, OECD oil
consumption fell by almost 10mn b/d and OECD oil production rose by about 3mn
b/d. Subsequently, OECD oil imports fell from 26mn b/d to 17mn b/d and imports
from the Middle
East
from 16mn b/d to less than 7mn b/d between 1973 and 1985. Leaders of countries
hostile to the governments of the major oil producing countries in the
Middle
East
felt that the region’s importance as the dominant oil producer had been dealt a
deadly blow. However, the emergence of new economic powers in
Asia, coupled with a returning
appetite for oil in the US, steadily turned the market
again in favor of the Middle
East
oil producers.
Lack of a determined and
consistent US energy policy to curb oil
demand growth and stimulate domestic production was not without effect. Coupled
with a more market-oriented OPEC pricing policy, and
robust economic growth in particular in the second half of the 1990s, it turned
US and OECD oil import dependence around once again in favor of the
Middle
East.
OECD oil imports between 1985 and 2000 rose from 17mn to 26mn b/d and imports
from the Middle
East
from 6.7mn b/d to 10.4mn b/d. US dependence on imported oil had
fallen to 4.6mn b/d in 1985, rose to 7.4mn b/d in 1990 and a record 11mn b/d in
2000. US dependence on
Middle
East
oil fell marginally from 0.8mn b/d in 1973 to 0.6mn b/d in 1985 and then rose to
2.5mn b/d in 2000.
Unaware of the impact of the Asian
financial crisis on Asian economic growth and oil demand, OPEC mistakenly
increased its production ceiling in December 1997. Oil prices collapsed and
subsequent declining global E&P activity caused non-OPEC production to
stagnate. However, in time, OPEC regained market share. By December 2000
Saudi
Arabia was
the only country left with significant spare capacity. If a major oil supply
disruption had occurred at that time, it would have had terrible consequences
for oil prices and the global economy.
For almost two decades in which US
oil import dependence rose rapidly, three US Administrations (Republican and
Democratic) paid little attention to the issue of rising oil demand and import
dependence other than in the context of environmental policy. When the IEA’s International
Energy Outlook of 2002, in its reference case, projected US oil imports to
rise to 14.3mn b/d in 2010 and 16.7mn b/d in 2020 (63% of projected oil
consumption), it raised few eyebrows in political Washington.
Oil
supply security was a minor policy issue in the
US until
the 11 September attacks on the World
Trade
Center and
the Pentagon. Since then, the mood of the Administration has changed and there
is a new determination to increase the Strategic Petroleum Reserve (SPR) and
reduce oil import dependence on the Middle
East in
favor of importing more oil from West
Africa,
Latin
America,
Canada,
Russia and
the Caspian region.
But the new policy once again fails
to address the real issues, ie, long-term
unconstrained US oil demand growth and the inability
to make adequate Federal acreage available for domestic E&P. The strange
notion that zero imports from the Middle East will somehow protect the
US economy from the adverse economic
impact of a possible major oil supply disruption appears to have survived. One
of the few positive energy policy actions taken by the US Administration is the
strengthening of the SPR.
Future Dependence On Middle East And Arab Oil
In the current low oil demand, high
oil price world, demand for OPEC and Middle East oil is rising at a snail’s pace.
However, even in this low growth world and with steadily rising non-OPEC
production, the “call on OPEC” through the end of 2003 is estimated at around
25.5mn b/d by Petroleum Economics Ltd (PEL) London. About 17mn b/d (19mn b/d
including North Africa) representing 67% of current OPEC
production or 22% of global oil production come from the Middle East. There is no way the world
could adjust to a scenario without the Middle East for any length of time short of
facing an economic calamity.
Many global oil supply assessments
conclude that incremental non-OPEC production will slow, if not decline, later
in this decade even at currently prevailing prices. All scenarios point at
sharply rising demand for Middle East oil in the next decade (2010-20).
Both the IEA and EIA show significant growth in demand for oil from the
Middle
East even
in this decade. Although their timing and extent of dependence on
Middle
East oil
differs, all analysts agree that the importance of the region to meet future
global oil demand will steadily rise. PEL estimates demand for Gulf crude oil in
2010 at between 17mn b/d (high price scenario) to 22mn b/d (low price scenario).
The EIA’s
International Outlook of 2002
estimates global demand on the Gulf in 2010 as high as 28mn b/d in its Reference
scenario, with the Saudi share estimated in excess of 12mn b/d. In either case,
Saudi
Arabia remains the number one world oil
exporter. US imports from the Gulf amounted to
23% of total oil imports in 2001; at 1.7mn b/d
Saudi
Arabia was the largest oil exporter to the
US from the Gulf region.
Base case scenarios suggest that
along with rising US oil imports, imports from the
Middle
East will
increase in the coming decade. However, rising oil production in the Atlantic
basin, a determined effort by Russian companies to export oil to the
US, and a government policy aimed at
reducing oil imports from the Middle East, could reduce oil imports from the
region later in the decade. Those who argue in favor of further reducing the
share of oil imports from the Gulf region maintain that this would enhance US
supply security, an argument I hope we have already thoroughly squashed.
Saudi
Arabia has until now had a strategic
interest in remaining one of the largest (if not the largest) oil exporters to
the US (for export diversification and
strategic reasons). If US refiners were to import more oil from the
Atlantic Basin and less from the
Middle
East in the
future, some Saudi exports would be diverted to Asia. Such a move would not have any
noticeable positive impact on US oil supply security.
The Special Role Of Saudi
Arabia In The Global Oil
Market
Saudi
Arabia, which holds a quarter of global
oil reserves and produces about 10% of world oil output, has been a major player
in the oil market since the 1960s. Oil was discovered in 1938 and production
reached 1mn b/d by 1958, 2mn b/d in 1965 and 3mn b/d in 1969. In 1972,
Saudi
Arabia became the largest OPEC oil
producer at 5.7mn b/d (Iran 5.1mn b/d), accounting for 20% of
OPEC production and 13% of global oil production. In 1980, Saudi production
peaked at 10mn b/d (annual average) or 36% of OPEC and 16% of global oil
production.
Ever since the late 1970s Saudi
Arabia has played a very constructive role in the oil market, balancing the
kingdom’s internal financial requirements with the interests of the oil
consuming countries in stable and moderate oil prices. When oil production fell
in Iran and
Iraq at first during the
Iran revolution and later during the
Iran-Iraq war, Saudi
Arabia increased oil production to prevent
another price hike. During and after the Gulf war, the kingdom quickly reacted
to the supply shortfall by rapidly increasing production, thereby avoiding a
damaging oil price spike.
Saudi
Arabia was
able to come to the rescue in the 1980s and 1990s because the kingdom maintained
considerable spare capacity. No other oil producer has ever been able and
willing to play this role to the extent
Saudi
Arabia has.
Should
Saudi
Arabia ever
abandon this policy (it has no intension to do so), global oil supply security
would be greatly affected. Global oil supply security rests on the twin pillars
of the strategic stocks of the IEA member states and Saudi spare capacity. By
international agreement, IEA members are obliged to draw strategic stocks under
specific conditions; Saudi
Arabia has no
such obligations but for the past two decades has used its spare capacity
effectively in case of supply disruptions.
One
of the differences between the IEA strategic stocks and Saudi spare capacity is
the size. The IEA members can release strategic stocks at a combined rate of
perhaps 5mn b/d for about four months or less than 3mn b/d for half a year. A
June IEA study has shown that the IEA stockdraw
potential is sufficient in magnitude and sustainability to cope with the largest
cited historical supply disruption. This is more than sufficient to deal with
the kind of crisis we faced in 1973-74 and 1979-80. However, in case of a
serious lasting oil supply crisis arising from wars or revolutions, IEA member
countries may be reluctant to maximize strategic stock withdrawal and, in the
end, the 1.3bn barrels of public stocks might not be adequate in a serious
lasting supply disruption.
By
contrast, Saudi
Arabia
has currently 2.5mn b/d to 3mn b/d of spare capacity and the kingdom will be
able to produce at the higher rate for years. Under most supply disruption
scenarios, the kingdom would be willing to do so. The ability and willingness to produce 2.5mn
b/d to 3mn b/d from spare capacity is a feature unique to
Saudi
Arabia.
Other Gulf
states
together have another 1.3mn b/d of spare capacity and other OPEC members aside
from Iraq
perhaps another 1.2mn b/d. There is negligible spare capacity outside of OPEC
and it is unlikely that any non-OPEC country will develop spare capacity and
leave it idle waiting for a crisis to come.
Most OPEC countries have spare
productive capacity due to current oil market conditions (weak demand and high
incremental non-OPEC production). Only
Saudi
Arabia has a
policy of actually maintaining spare capacity, both to influence OPEC policy and
as an insurance policy against price hikes arising from oil supply
disruptions.
Challenges Facing
Middle
East
Oil Producers
Market Challenges: In 2000, average OPEC crude oil and
NGL production was 30.8mn b/d (28mn b/d of crude oil only) and most OPEC
countries were producing at or very close to capacity. About 80% of global spare
productive capacity was located in Saudi
Arabia and much of the remaining spare
capacity was located in the Gulf.
Market conditions have changed with
the downturn in the US economy; oil demand has stagnated
and non-OPEC production has increased. The net result has been a rise in OPEC
spare capacity of some 7mn b/d of which about 45% is in
Saudi
Arabia alone and 80% in the
Middle
East as a
whole (excluding North Africa). If global economic growth remains
anemic for one or more years to come and OPEC succeeds in maintaining oil prices
in the OPEC desired trading range of $22-28/B, demand growth is expected to
remain modest (about 1.5% per annum) and incremental non-OPEC supply for the
foreseeable future is projected to rise at close to the rate of global oil
demand growth. If this happens, demand for OPEC oil could stagnate for the next
few years at a time when several OPEC countries are adding to productive
capacity. Tensions between OPEC and non-OPEC as well as within the OPEC family
are bound to rise.
Once
Iraq sanctions are lifted, productive
capacity from proved reserves could rise within a few years to some 4mn b/d,
thus adding to OPEC’s headaches. Coping with the challenges from within OPEC and
from non-OPEC will not be easy. In 1986 OPEC could afford to challenge non-OPEC
in a fight for market share because key OPEC members had amassed vast foreign
exchange reserves in the years prior to 1986.
One of the major issues facing OPEC
countries, including Saudi
Arabia, is how to maintain their oil
market share at oil prices needed to meet budget requirements. A recent study by
Dr Sharif Ghalib of EIG
implies that Saudi
Arabia requires an oil price of $25/B to
meet the kingdom’s budget. Dr Ghalib’s finding have been confirmed by other senior economists
working in the kingdom. However, if prices are maintained at this level through
OPEC supply management, Middle East oil production may have to be
frozen at close to current levels for several years to come.
How to Cope With The Non-OPEC Challenge
Since
the beginning of non-OPEC cooperation with OPEC, non-OPEC contributions to
production cuts have been largely symbolic with the exception of a few
countries. The Former Soviet Union (FSU) has paid lip-service to OPEC’s calls
for production constraints but actual production data from various statistical
sources show no proof of such production cuts in the past.
Non-OPEC
producers will only cooperate with OPEC once OPEC increases market share, allows
prices to fall to below $15/B (Brent) and keeps prices at that level for months.
Short of such draconian measures, past experience has shown that few non-OPEC
oil exporting countries will actually assist OPEC in its effort to manage oil
supplies around a price level of $22 to $28/B. OPEC’s dilemma is that only lower
prices ($20/B or less) will reduce non-OPEC incremental production growth and
increase consumption; but most OPEC countries need more than $20/B to balance
government budgets. Time will tell how OPEC will resolve this
dilemma.
The non-OPEC production challenge,
at $25/B or higher oil prices, will reduce demand growth for OPEC oil at a time
when many OPEC producers are adding capacity. Pressures in particular from
non-Middle East OPEC producers for higher quotas are expected to rise along with
capacity growth. Iraq’s productive capacity is dependent
on the outcome of the ongoing confrontation with the
US. In the medium to longer term,
however, with or without regime change,
Iraq’s production is bound to rise and
may ultimately rise above 6mn b/d. Friction is bound to rise within OPEC on how
to deal with rising capacity and Iraq’s production ambitions.
One way to deal with the situation
is to allow higher quotas and accept subsequent lower oil prices. Lower prices
will increase demand growth; reduce non-OPEC incremental supply; and enable OPEC
to accommodate internal capacity growth. The challenges to OPEC to maintain
production volumes and oil prices in the medium and longer term at a minimum
level required to meet minimum budgetary needs, are rising. OPEC has faced
similar challenges before and has been able to resolve the price/volume dilemma
at a cost to both OPEC and non-OPEC oil producers.
The Russian
Challenge
Former Soviet Union (FSU) oil
production peaked at 12.8mn b/d in 1988 and fell sharply after the
USSR broke up. The FSU reached bottom
production in 1996 at 7.2mn b/d, of which Russian production accounted for 6.1mn
b/d. Privatization of the oil industry coupled with the fall of the Ruble led to
a boom in upstream investments in the Russian oil industry. Russian production
rose from 6.1 to 7.1mn b/d between 1996 and 2001. Western investment in the
Caspian raised production in the region from 1.2mn b/d in 1995 to 1.6mn b/d in
2001. Net FSU exports rose from 2.6mn b/d in 1995 to 4.6mn b/d by 2001. In the
same period, Saudi oil output fell from 7.8mn b/d to 7.5mn
b/d.
Petroleum Economics Ltd projected
that total FSU production may increase by another 1.6mn b/d between 2001 and
2005 and net exports by some 1.3mn b/d or almost 350,000 b/d annually. These
numbers are in broad agreement with those of Robert Ebel of CSIS, one of the foremost Russian energy experts in
the US. In 2005, FSU oil exports could
amount to 5.8mn b/d , while Saudi exports (due to OPEC quota constraints) may
perhaps not exceed 6-7mn b/d. FSU oil exports will challenge Saudi and Middle
East export in Western Europe and to a lesser extent in the American market.
Beyond 2005, the FSU production
outlook is more difficult to project. Caspian oil production and net exports are
expected to continue to rise for at least another decade and could amount to
1.5mn b/d by 2010. Depending on the post-2005 Russian production outlook and oil
demand growth, Russian oil exports in 2010 could amount to 4-5mn b/d. On the
negative side, Russian oil reserves have reportedly declined by 15% in the past
decade. Robert Ebel wrote that while Russian oil
production has grown by about 1mn b/d since 1996, what is not known is how much
of the incremental oil production in Russia came from: old Soviet practices of
pulling fields to the maximum; how much from well repairs; how much from new
production in existing fields and how much from new fields. Unless we get better
data, it will prove difficult to gauge future production capacity of the
Russian
Federation. At this time, however, it is
sufficient to say that Russia and the Caspian have become
formidable oil nations, ready to challenge Middle East oil producers, in particular in the
Atlantic basin.
In terms of oil supply
diversification, it is doubtful that oil imports from
Russia and the Caspian region will be any
more secure than Middle East oil. The Caspian countries suffer
from some of the same internal problems as some Gulf countries and, in addition
these countries are land-locked, making them hostage to neighboring countries’
policies. There is also perception by some analysts and in particular by those
who favor marginalizing the Middle East, that
Russia will be a more secure source of oil
exports to the US than Gulf countries.
Russia is likely to follow its own agenda,
determined by Russia’s own national interest. For
example, Russia appears to have different interests
than the US in three countries labeled as the
“axis of evil” by the US. There is no apparent security
reason why the US should favor Russian oil imports
over Middle
East oil.
The Need For Saudi Oil
Even in the low demand, high
non-OPEC production growth scenario, the Middle East still accounts for 65-70% of OPEC
production and more than 20% of global production.
Saudi
Arabia would account for 25%-30% of OPEC
production and 8-11% of global production. Under any scenario (even the most
conservative demand outlook), Saudi Arabia would need to produce between 7mn b/d
and 9mn b/d to meet global oil demand, even taking into account prospects for a
slight adjustment of OPEC quotas. Saudi
Arabia would remain the single largest oil
exporter in the world and the only country with sufficient spare capacity to
continue to play its role as one of the pillars of global oil supply security.
No other producer will be able to challenge the Saudi position as the largest
oil exporter and prime provider of oil supply security in this
decade.
Can
the world rely on Saudi oil? The record of
Saudi
Arabia
as a reliable oil exporter, willing and able to secure an acceptable oil price
level and make up for lost production elsewhere, has been established over the
past quarter of a century. Aside from the fact that no other country can perform
this dual role in the foreseeable future, it is doubtful that any other major
oil exporter would be willing to play this role. The US-Saudi relationship has
frequently been described as a marriage of convenience.
Saudi
Arabia
has used its oil production power to meet global oil demand generally at an
acceptable price level and provided attractive markets for certain US goods and
services.
In
return, the US
has provided a security umbrella for Saudi
Arabia
and the Gulf region. Until 11 September this relationship worked well most of
the time. Since 11 September, serious differences have arisen between the two
old allies. These differences require intense discussion if they are to be
resolved. The overtly hostile, perhaps orchestrated anti-Saudi cabal that has
increased in the US
since 11 September does not serve US interests.
The
current system of government in Saudi Arabia can offer the best guarantee that
Saudi Arabia will continue its past oil policy which has benefited the world.
Saudi
Arabia
is facing serious demographic and socio-economic problems and the kingdom would
be well served to address some of these underlying problems, which have caused
some of its citizens to play such a dominant role in the tragedy of 11
September. Rather than attacks on Saudi society and government in the media from
prominent politicians, former government officials and poorly informed op-ed
writers, it would be more productive to engage in quiet diplomacy in an effort
to remove the negative factors, which work against both Saudi and
US
national interests.
The
US Government, in turn, should be more open to the concerns expressed by all
governments in the region on the issue of Palestine,
which is increasingly radicalizing the younger generation in the
Middle
East
and turning them against the US.
Only the US Government can and must play an active role in bringing the two
parties to the conference table but, it can only do so effectively by being
even-handed.
The
Saudi Government has a proven record of accommodating global interests in terms
of oil policy. One cannot take this for granted, assuming that any Saudi
Government will follow a similar policy at any time. We should do well to
remember that Iran
produced 5.5mn b/d prior to the 1979 revolution. In the 23 years since the
revolution, Iran’s
oil production, for a variety of reasons, has averaged only a little more than
half the pre-1979 level of production. At the end of the Second World War, the
three major oil giants in the Middle
East,
Saudi
Arabia,
Iraq
and Iran,
were closely allied to Western interests. Today, only one country remains close
to the West. We would be well served to maintain a close relationship with the
last of the major oil producers whose oil policy interests are almost identical
to ours.